Comments on: Heroes vs. Lost: The Rumble in the Sci-Fi TV Jungle http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/ TheJay.com is pop culture from inside the bubble, providing fresh and funny commentary on the world of entertainment. Thu, 04 Mar 2010 18:47:59 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: BulldozerBegins http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-4/#comment-187672 BulldozerBegins Tue, 29 Sep 2009 03:03:25 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-187672 <p>The only thing Heroes has in common with Lost: </p> <ol> <li><p>Dependence on a myth arc. Shows have been doing this since X-Files did it. Big hairy deal.</p></li> <li><p>Lots and Lots of characters. Also standard for modern TV.</p></li> <li><p>The exact same (or very similar) stereotypes. </p></li> </ol> <p>To say one's good and the other bad merely because they use the same stereotypes as one another is hardly an intellectual argument. Battlestar Galactica, Stargate, Star Trek, and other Star-this-and-that shows use a lot of the same stock characters as one another, but with a lot less FanDumb.</p> <p>Take another look: </p> <ol> <li><p>Lost is about an ISLAND that screws over muggles.</p></li> <li><p>Heroes is about MUTANTS that somehow don't degenerate into X-Men clones, and who have to decide what the moral implications are of having superpowers. </p></li> <li><p>Lost asks: "Who are we, really?"</p></li> <li><p>Heroes asks: "What are the moral implications of the compromises we make, and when does the end actually justify the means?"</p></li> <li><p>Lost screwed itself over when the writing team simply ran low on ideas and began making it up as they went along, much like X-Files.</p></li> <li><p>Heroes got screwed over when the Writers Strike forced them to cancel three entire volumes and figure out a way to crunch good ideas from those volumes all into one volume, and have it work just well enough that they could end the series on it if necessary. </p></li> </ol> <p>Naturally, this meant that they were mega-screwed when they had to create the "Villains" arc, and the actors themselves make it obvious that it just wasn't working when a lot of motivation from "Exodus" got cut. </p> <p>"Fugitives" was a nice attempt at tying up loose ends, but its "Stab X in the back, now stab Y in the back, now blackmail X and B into teaming up with P to dig up skeletons in a desert" type of plot, combined with Parkman ruining Danko's life the exact same way as he did Noah's and with similar results, showed that the writers were running out of patience with each other, and were all desperate for results.</p> <p>It's a sign that shows have run their course when things get this bad on either.</p> The only thing Heroes has in common with Lost:

  1. Dependence on a myth arc. Shows have been doing this since X-Files did it. Big hairy deal.

  2. Lots and Lots of characters. Also standard for modern TV.

  3. The exact same (or very similar) stereotypes.

To say one’s good and the other bad merely because they use the same stereotypes as one another is hardly an intellectual argument. Battlestar Galactica, Stargate, Star Trek, and other Star-this-and-that shows use a lot of the same stock characters as one another, but with a lot less FanDumb.

Take another look:

  1. Lost is about an ISLAND that screws over muggles.

  2. Heroes is about MUTANTS that somehow don’t degenerate into X-Men clones, and who have to decide what the moral implications are of having superpowers.

  3. Lost asks: “Who are we, really?”

  4. Heroes asks: “What are the moral implications of the compromises we make, and when does the end actually justify the means?”

  5. Lost screwed itself over when the writing team simply ran low on ideas and began making it up as they went along, much like X-Files.

  6. Heroes got screwed over when the Writers Strike forced them to cancel three entire volumes and figure out a way to crunch good ideas from those volumes all into one volume, and have it work just well enough that they could end the series on it if necessary.

Naturally, this meant that they were mega-screwed when they had to create the “Villains” arc, and the actors themselves make it obvious that it just wasn’t working when a lot of motivation from “Exodus” got cut.

“Fugitives” was a nice attempt at tying up loose ends, but its “Stab X in the back, now stab Y in the back, now blackmail X and B into teaming up with P to dig up skeletons in a desert” type of plot, combined with Parkman ruining Danko’s life the exact same way as he did Noah’s and with similar results, showed that the writers were running out of patience with each other, and were all desperate for results.

It’s a sign that shows have run their course when things get this bad on either.

]]> By: abby http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-4/#comment-187226 abby Thu, 24 Sep 2009 04:25:04 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-187226 <p>LOST is genuine and brilliant, simple as that! Its main feature is that it has the right balance of character depth with just enough intrigue in its plot. It doesn't go haywire giving sci-fi powers in several of its characters to create interest. Oh, let's make this one be able to fly... That is superman-like, comical, childish, old. LOST character build is more mature, it has depth, more for adults. But as said earlier, it is not just this alone as it would not be the same without the mystery, the secluded island setting that builds a focal point, the signature flashbacks and the awesome cast. There are so many more elements. It is not surprising that any new show (Heroes or whatever) despite copying from this show, is not being able to achieve this intricate balance (unless you copy the whole package!!). You can't just create a bunch of look-alike characters from LOST, especially with a cast such as that for Heroes and expect to get the same results. It is that balance of all those elements plus a brilliant set of writers, actors, directors to get to such a master piece. I don't even think Heros and shows having people with sci-fi powers are even in the same theme as LOST's. Just because Heroes copied LOST's plot twists and mirrored character look-alikes doesn't make it comparable to LOST.</p> LOST is genuine and brilliant, simple as that! Its main feature is that it has the right balance of character depth with just enough intrigue in its plot. It doesn’t go haywire giving sci-fi powers in several of its characters to create interest. Oh, let’s make this one be able to fly… That is superman-like, comical, childish, old. LOST character build is more mature, it has depth, more for adults. But as said earlier, it is not just this alone as it would not be the same without the mystery, the secluded island setting that builds a focal point, the signature flashbacks and the awesome cast. There are so many more elements. It is not surprising that any new show (Heroes or whatever) despite copying from this show, is not being able to achieve this intricate balance (unless you copy the whole package!!). You can’t just create a bunch of look-alike characters from LOST, especially with a cast such as that for Heroes and expect to get the same results. It is that balance of all those elements plus a brilliant set of writers, actors, directors to get to such a master piece. I don’t even think Heros and shows having people with sci-fi powers are even in the same theme as LOST’s. Just because Heroes copied LOST’s plot twists and mirrored character look-alikes doesn’t make it comparable to LOST.

]]> By: susan http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-4/#comment-178070 susan Tue, 26 May 2009 00:27:45 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-178070 <p>very nice!</p> very nice!

]]> By: Andyman http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-177720 Andyman Thu, 21 May 2009 15:13:44 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-177720 <p>I used to be a huge HEROES fan. And by HUGE I mean HUGE! If HEROES was a religion I would be it's pope. Anyway, I feel that HEROES has degenerated into a great big pile of cow S**T! It sucks! And not just kinda sorta sucks! It sucks atomic balls! It is the pimp of suckage!</p> I used to be a huge HEROES fan. And by HUGE I mean HUGE! If HEROES was a religion I would be it’s pope. Anyway, I feel that HEROES has degenerated into a great big pile of cow S**T! It sucks! And not just kinda sorta sucks! It sucks atomic balls! It is the pimp of suckage!

]]> By: Chris http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-177302 Chris Sat, 16 May 2009 14:07:23 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-177302 <p>First of all, I must thank the author of this article becasue i was constantly laughing my ass off. The part with the YATTA thing that you can use it during sex, when finding money, etc... couldn't make me stop laughing. So congrats :)</p> <p>Secondly, I used to love heroes more than lost during their first seasons but now it is obvious that Lost is putting up everything together while most of the time on heroes, something new and unrelated happens.</p> <p>IMO, lost is at its best from season 3's finale (the one with the flashforward). Season 4 rocked because we knew that they survived because of the flashforwards, and... man, season 5 put up everything together. We came to realize that in the end the show is not about leaving the island since they realised that they must go back. The show came down to good and evil (related to God and the Devil as in Jacob and his enemy)</p> First of all, I must thank the author of this article becasue i was constantly laughing my ass off. The part with the YATTA thing that you can use it during sex, when finding money, etc… couldn’t make me stop laughing. So congrats :)

Secondly, I used to love heroes more than lost during their first seasons but now it is obvious that Lost is putting up everything together while most of the time on heroes, something new and unrelated happens.

IMO, lost is at its best from season 3’s finale (the one with the flashforward). Season 4 rocked because we knew that they survived because of the flashforwards, and… man, season 5 put up everything together. We came to realize that in the end the show is not about leaving the island since they realised that they must go back. The show came down to good and evil (related to God and the Devil as in Jacob and his enemy)

]]> By: duuuuuuuude :P http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-176653 duuuuuuuude :P Sun, 10 May 2009 14:18:04 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-176653 <p>lost DOES give answers but not in a lame way that answers everything after 2 or 3 episodes to make it exciting.........some people dont like it because they are simply stupid and dont understand it >.< (no offense) </p> <p>and lost has moooooooore and better twists than heroes (which ripped off most of lost's ) </p> <p>some characters also has some abilities but doesnt turn the show into X-men</p> <p>btw lost let us know each characters life so when there is some sad scene it affects u like locke's dad scenes ....as for heroes.....the characters themselves dont seem affected like in genesis when the fat indian guy tells mohinder "ur dad is dead" he simply replies ...."how :) ok whatever lets get to his apartment and take some stuff" </p> <p>dont let me talk about rewards now......</p> lost DOES give answers but not in a lame way that answers everything after 2 or 3 episodes to make it exciting………some people dont like it because they are simply stupid and dont understand it >.< (no offense)

and lost has moooooooore and better twists than heroes (which ripped off most of lost’s )

some characters also has some abilities but doesnt turn the show into X-men

btw lost let us know each characters life so when there is some sad scene it affects u like locke’s dad scenes ….as for heroes…..the characters themselves dont seem affected like in genesis when the fat indian guy tells mohinder “ur dad is dead” he simply replies ….”how :) ok whatever lets get to his apartment and take some stuff”

dont let me talk about rewards now……

]]> By: Wil Vill http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-176303 Wil Vill Tue, 05 May 2009 09:02:10 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-176303 <p>I used to be a lost fan. But lost got lost with its stories. Past mysteries were not solved, additional mysteries add, some non-sense stories added, etc. etc.</p> <p>I watched an episode of lost recently and its still lost!</p> <p>Unlike heroes, story is great! Although all stories have holes, original writers are back. I just find Volume 3 last episodes and Volume 4 Episode 1-5 are boring and not so good. But upon Episode 6 to end, its great again.</p> <p>Cheers!</p> I used to be a lost fan. But lost got lost with its stories. Past mysteries were not solved, additional mysteries add, some non-sense stories added, etc. etc.

I watched an episode of lost recently and its still lost!

Unlike heroes, story is great! Although all stories have holes, original writers are back. I just find Volume 3 last episodes and Volume 4 Episode 1-5 are boring and not so good. But upon Episode 6 to end, its great again.

Cheers!

]]> By: Batey http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-172981 Batey Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:31:01 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-172981 <p>Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh dear.</p> <p>How wrong this article turned out to be.</p> Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh dear.

How wrong this article turned out to be.

]]> By: Jim http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-166518 Jim Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:12:50 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-166518 <p>hi! I just thought I'd put my two cents in. </p> <p>I'm a LOST fan, and have been for quite some time. I was looking for a show that was at least 1/2 as good as Lost to watch, so i started watching Heroes.</p> <p>I'd have to agree with the Lost fans here. Lost is great, no 1 hour drama show will beat it for quite some time.</p> <p>I had good hopes for Heroes, but it is..udderly ridiculous, the acting, story, dialogue, pretty much everything. For me, watching a show should be about the journey to get there, and the characters. Lost has great characters. Heroes has zero.</p> <p>When I watch Heroes, and somebody dies, I'm kind of happy, as I don't have to listen to them anymore. When they are suddenly alive next episode (or after commercial break) again, then I am upset. You see what I mean?</p> <p>I'm only watching it now as a train wreck. How much longer will it be on? I just started watching season 3, and it's completely ridiculous as well. Hiro is now got the mind of a 10 year old? I think a 10 year old must have wrote that episode. oh well.</p> <p>But whatever. I can understand why people watch it. They're the same kind of people that watch plot-based stuff like 24. Lost is different as it's a character based show.</p> hi! I just thought I’d put my two cents in.

I’m a LOST fan, and have been for quite some time. I was looking for a show that was at least 1/2 as good as Lost to watch, so i started watching Heroes.

I’d have to agree with the Lost fans here. Lost is great, no 1 hour drama show will beat it for quite some time.

I had good hopes for Heroes, but it is..udderly ridiculous, the acting, story, dialogue, pretty much everything. For me, watching a show should be about the journey to get there, and the characters. Lost has great characters. Heroes has zero.

When I watch Heroes, and somebody dies, I’m kind of happy, as I don’t have to listen to them anymore. When they are suddenly alive next episode (or after commercial break) again, then I am upset. You see what I mean?

I’m only watching it now as a train wreck. How much longer will it be on? I just started watching season 3, and it’s completely ridiculous as well. Hiro is now got the mind of a 10 year old? I think a 10 year old must have wrote that episode. oh well.

But whatever. I can understand why people watch it. They’re the same kind of people that watch plot-based stuff like 24. Lost is different as it’s a character based show.

]]> By: Mark http://www.thejay.com/2006/12/11/heroes-lost-rumble/comment-page-3/#comment-164862 Mark Mon, 09 Feb 2009 06:47:48 +0000 http://www.thejay.com/?p=113#comment-164862 <p>Yea, I like LOST better. It has a more original storyline with better acting. And what show has more cultural references?? I mean, that takes a lot of research which results in better writing. Anyone could write about someone with supernatural powers, using it for good vs. evil, but how do you write about trying to get off an island that is mysteriously unseen to the world? Good question, watch the show.... AMAZING... and then they need to GO BACK???? WOW!!! Obviously, mysterious storylines draws the viewers in more than just straightforward plot and resolution.</p> <p>The best shows have 5-6 seasons, otherwise, it just drags on...</p> Yea, I like LOST better. It has a more original storyline with better acting. And what show has more cultural references?? I mean, that takes a lot of research which results in better writing. Anyone could write about someone with supernatural powers, using it for good vs. evil, but how do you write about trying to get off an island that is mysteriously unseen to the world? Good question, watch the show…. AMAZING… and then they need to GO BACK???? WOW!!! Obviously, mysterious storylines draws the viewers in more than just straightforward plot and resolution.

The best shows have 5-6 seasons, otherwise, it just drags on…

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